Post by Ketara on May 19, 2010 19:37:52 GMT -5
(05:04:38 PM) Ketara: [16:57] <Sebastian> DracoWhen Ket wants to come in here and sincerely apologize for being a fucking retard, then I'll consider coming back.
[17:01] <Ketara> How was I a fucking retard, lol
[17:01] <Ketara> I wonder what I did.
[17:01] <Sebastian> DracoAll the retarded outcomes, all the severely-biased outcomes, and the time he started an argument with me so he'd have an excuse to demote me a week after the first time I reached officer ranks.
[17:01] <Ketara> SNERK
[17:02] <Sebastian> DracoAll the shitty things like "Pirates can attack their own ships" and "Medea fleets block Gaws"
[17:02] <Sebastian> Draco"These balloons block a whole fleet of real ships"
19:53Draco"Jim Irwin gets to live because your submarines are on the other side of the continent" "This damaged Medea can outrun your Zanzibar" "Marines fired like missiles can capture a battleship"
[17:02] <Sebastian> Draco"A GM with 6 VP beats an ambushing Dom with at least twice the VP and Earth specialization" 19:55DracoOh yeah. "Nigel Ferdinand can survive having a Medea destroyed around him at least twice"
[17:03] <Ketara> I think it's funny because he never actually brings this up with me in person like he is supposed to, so clearly he doesn't think it's all that biased.
[17:03] <Ketara> Well, I did explain the Marines fired like missiles thing.
[17:04] <Sebastian> PLEASE transfer his ships to me... -.-
[17:04] <Sebastian> DracoSo yeah, I'll take a sincere apology and the promotion he stole from me. I won't even ask for backpay.
And now, the dance:
#1: I ruled that pirates could attack their own ships because otherwise they would have been unable to detain Jim while he was traveling inside their ship just because his mobile suit was repairing. If I hadn't ruled it that way it would have made completely zero sense. There is no rule that says you cannot attack members of your own side or ships you own, although if a non-Rogue did it they would probably be demoted.
#2: Medeas blocking Gaws is much more an issue of the time spent chasing them down, as well as creating an actual war style feel of military battle lines, and much less an issue of the actual blocking. It is more complicated than it looks. There's two basic points.
First off, you have to assume that even in enemy or contested territory, a base is behind the actual combat lines. Say Europe is contested, with an EF base at Belfast and a Zeon base at Constantinople. You don't just walk over to Belfast and attack it, you have to push the enemy front line back until you're in a position in which you can assault the base. However, the map system is simplified to the degree that it appears you can just walk over and attack it. So we have the ambushes-cancel-assaults rule to simulate this pitched battle environment. In order to get a clear shot at a base, you have to be able to damage all enemy PCs or ships to the degree that they cannot or will not attack you. This represents in a larger scheme of things your side slowly gaining control and momentum over the contested zone, allowing you to attack the base. Thus, even if it is your entire fleet being stopped by an all range attack from a lone Zaku Cannon in a rules-sense, in an RP sense the Zaku Cannon has nothing to do with why you were stopped, it is representational for your side not having enough control over the territory to have an unrestricted attack on the enemy base.
Fleets are allowed to siege bases, which cannot be stopped, because that represents the fleet, which has enough tactical presence to basically do what it wants, just ignoring existing battle lines and moving straight for the enemy base. However, this also takes an extra update to do, which is representational of the fleet having to take extra time to move through enemy occupied terrain, rather than just walking straight to the base if there was nothing in their way.
Secondly, a big part of that question is the time it takes to have the battle before the assault. A base assault is a delicate operation, and being ambushed by an enemy attack team can delay your unit quite a bit. Even if they cause no damage, the reorganization after the battle could take quite some time, or light damage to a ships treads could over time severely slow it down. The enemy force may have to stop to get more ammo or for medical attention, etc. In this case, a Medea blocking a group of Gaws may be a little silly. But what would you want, a rule like "Ambushes block assaults if the ambushing party is bigger than the assaulting party?" A phrase like 'bigger than' is extremely ambiguous, and leads to problems.
I actually think Draco is referring to the incident in which Jojo bought a Medea on a base and paradropped a fleet the same day, to prevent said fleet from attacking the base where Jojo bought the Medea. That was admittedly a rules error, because really, Jojo could have done that ad-infinitum (Or Zeon could have just SIEGED), and it was an error in the rules I didn't catch. I had to let him do it, because the rules said he could and otherwise it wouldn't be fair to him, but after that 1 instance I changed the rule. Only time we've had something like that happen this run, pretty good record.
Balloons blocking real ships works in basically the exact same way. It is a mixture of the ship/fleet being delayed by harassing attacks whether or not they do any damage, and being representational of the fleet not really having tactical control of the zone because somebody can attack them with balloons. You really have to look at it in the structure of a war with billions of people fighting, and not just 60 guys and their toys.
#3: I'm not really sure what the issue with this one is. Feyd sent in a battle strategy to retreat across the Atlantic, and Draco sent in a battle strategy to have a good portion of his Dopps block a retreat zone into the Pacific Ocean. If you have part of your forces playing defensively like that, you have to be okay with the possibility that they might not be included in the battle. He could have sent them all on an attack, but he didn't. So that's what was written. Draco picked the wrong ocean, so Feyd got away. I especially don't see the problem with this when it was one update after I didn't let Feyd singlehandedly kill Garma when he was totally unsupported.
#4: What. Medeas can outrun Zanzibars. I don't know what the problem with this one either. Every single instance in which I have written a Medea vs. Gaw/Zanzibar battle, I've gone at length to explain that Medeas are faster and that is how they defend themselves. They're tiny planes, Gaws/Zanzibars are huge, and they each have the same number of engines. Gaws/Zanzibars use their Dopps, which are faster than the Medeas, to force the Medea to take evasive action or damage its engines, which slows it down enough that the Gaw/Zanzibar can engage it. If it wasn't that way, Medeas would never survive battles ever because they have no guns or armor and planes can't really dodge mega particle cannons. It would have been unfair if, by some stroke of coincidence, the Medea couldn't outrun the Zanzibar. Draco just didn't have enough Dopps.
#5: I am not sure what he's talking about with the "6 VP GM can beat a Dom" but really? Are we being that nitpicky. If it was an ambush, then why would you be that nitpicky. Sometimes small battles have unexpected results. What if every ambush and spar's outcome was soley decided on who had the most VP. How much fun would that be? If it was part of a larger event, then you'd have to take the event context into account. And why would you get so butthurt out of a small part of the written portion of an event, really. Plus, to be honest, Draco is seriously saying somebody with a 16 VP bonus over somebody else should always win, which is kinda luls.
#6: Yeah he's right, I have given Jojo two miraculous Nigel saves. Largely because I like Nigel. The player with the highest VP who has never died despite spending the majority of his time flying around on a Dodai using a mobile suit designed for long range artillery bombardment shouldn't be talking though.
The marines fired like missiles thing we seriously have already discussed to death. Everybody who was actually involved thinks it was fair, or is at least over it.
This has been an interperetive dance, by Ketara. *bows*
[17:01] <Ketara> How was I a fucking retard, lol
[17:01] <Ketara> I wonder what I did.
[17:01] <Sebastian> DracoAll the retarded outcomes, all the severely-biased outcomes, and the time he started an argument with me so he'd have an excuse to demote me a week after the first time I reached officer ranks.
[17:01] <Ketara> SNERK
[17:02] <Sebastian> DracoAll the shitty things like "Pirates can attack their own ships" and "Medea fleets block Gaws"
[17:02] <Sebastian> Draco"These balloons block a whole fleet of real ships"
19:53Draco"Jim Irwin gets to live because your submarines are on the other side of the continent" "This damaged Medea can outrun your Zanzibar" "Marines fired like missiles can capture a battleship"
[17:02] <Sebastian> Draco"A GM with 6 VP beats an ambushing Dom with at least twice the VP and Earth specialization" 19:55DracoOh yeah. "Nigel Ferdinand can survive having a Medea destroyed around him at least twice"
[17:03] <Ketara> I think it's funny because he never actually brings this up with me in person like he is supposed to, so clearly he doesn't think it's all that biased.
[17:03] <Ketara> Well, I did explain the Marines fired like missiles thing.
[17:04] <Sebastian> PLEASE transfer his ships to me... -.-
[17:04] <Sebastian> DracoSo yeah, I'll take a sincere apology and the promotion he stole from me. I won't even ask for backpay.
And now, the dance:
#1: I ruled that pirates could attack their own ships because otherwise they would have been unable to detain Jim while he was traveling inside their ship just because his mobile suit was repairing. If I hadn't ruled it that way it would have made completely zero sense. There is no rule that says you cannot attack members of your own side or ships you own, although if a non-Rogue did it they would probably be demoted.
#2: Medeas blocking Gaws is much more an issue of the time spent chasing them down, as well as creating an actual war style feel of military battle lines, and much less an issue of the actual blocking. It is more complicated than it looks. There's two basic points.
First off, you have to assume that even in enemy or contested territory, a base is behind the actual combat lines. Say Europe is contested, with an EF base at Belfast and a Zeon base at Constantinople. You don't just walk over to Belfast and attack it, you have to push the enemy front line back until you're in a position in which you can assault the base. However, the map system is simplified to the degree that it appears you can just walk over and attack it. So we have the ambushes-cancel-assaults rule to simulate this pitched battle environment. In order to get a clear shot at a base, you have to be able to damage all enemy PCs or ships to the degree that they cannot or will not attack you. This represents in a larger scheme of things your side slowly gaining control and momentum over the contested zone, allowing you to attack the base. Thus, even if it is your entire fleet being stopped by an all range attack from a lone Zaku Cannon in a rules-sense, in an RP sense the Zaku Cannon has nothing to do with why you were stopped, it is representational for your side not having enough control over the territory to have an unrestricted attack on the enemy base.
Fleets are allowed to siege bases, which cannot be stopped, because that represents the fleet, which has enough tactical presence to basically do what it wants, just ignoring existing battle lines and moving straight for the enemy base. However, this also takes an extra update to do, which is representational of the fleet having to take extra time to move through enemy occupied terrain, rather than just walking straight to the base if there was nothing in their way.
Secondly, a big part of that question is the time it takes to have the battle before the assault. A base assault is a delicate operation, and being ambushed by an enemy attack team can delay your unit quite a bit. Even if they cause no damage, the reorganization after the battle could take quite some time, or light damage to a ships treads could over time severely slow it down. The enemy force may have to stop to get more ammo or for medical attention, etc. In this case, a Medea blocking a group of Gaws may be a little silly. But what would you want, a rule like "Ambushes block assaults if the ambushing party is bigger than the assaulting party?" A phrase like 'bigger than' is extremely ambiguous, and leads to problems.
I actually think Draco is referring to the incident in which Jojo bought a Medea on a base and paradropped a fleet the same day, to prevent said fleet from attacking the base where Jojo bought the Medea. That was admittedly a rules error, because really, Jojo could have done that ad-infinitum (Or Zeon could have just SIEGED), and it was an error in the rules I didn't catch. I had to let him do it, because the rules said he could and otherwise it wouldn't be fair to him, but after that 1 instance I changed the rule. Only time we've had something like that happen this run, pretty good record.
Balloons blocking real ships works in basically the exact same way. It is a mixture of the ship/fleet being delayed by harassing attacks whether or not they do any damage, and being representational of the fleet not really having tactical control of the zone because somebody can attack them with balloons. You really have to look at it in the structure of a war with billions of people fighting, and not just 60 guys and their toys.
#3: I'm not really sure what the issue with this one is. Feyd sent in a battle strategy to retreat across the Atlantic, and Draco sent in a battle strategy to have a good portion of his Dopps block a retreat zone into the Pacific Ocean. If you have part of your forces playing defensively like that, you have to be okay with the possibility that they might not be included in the battle. He could have sent them all on an attack, but he didn't. So that's what was written. Draco picked the wrong ocean, so Feyd got away. I especially don't see the problem with this when it was one update after I didn't let Feyd singlehandedly kill Garma when he was totally unsupported.
#4: What. Medeas can outrun Zanzibars. I don't know what the problem with this one either. Every single instance in which I have written a Medea vs. Gaw/Zanzibar battle, I've gone at length to explain that Medeas are faster and that is how they defend themselves. They're tiny planes, Gaws/Zanzibars are huge, and they each have the same number of engines. Gaws/Zanzibars use their Dopps, which are faster than the Medeas, to force the Medea to take evasive action or damage its engines, which slows it down enough that the Gaw/Zanzibar can engage it. If it wasn't that way, Medeas would never survive battles ever because they have no guns or armor and planes can't really dodge mega particle cannons. It would have been unfair if, by some stroke of coincidence, the Medea couldn't outrun the Zanzibar. Draco just didn't have enough Dopps.
#5: I am not sure what he's talking about with the "6 VP GM can beat a Dom" but really? Are we being that nitpicky. If it was an ambush, then why would you be that nitpicky. Sometimes small battles have unexpected results. What if every ambush and spar's outcome was soley decided on who had the most VP. How much fun would that be? If it was part of a larger event, then you'd have to take the event context into account. And why would you get so butthurt out of a small part of the written portion of an event, really. Plus, to be honest, Draco is seriously saying somebody with a 16 VP bonus over somebody else should always win, which is kinda luls.
#6: Yeah he's right, I have given Jojo two miraculous Nigel saves. Largely because I like Nigel. The player with the highest VP who has never died despite spending the majority of his time flying around on a Dodai using a mobile suit designed for long range artillery bombardment shouldn't be talking though.
The marines fired like missiles thing we seriously have already discussed to death. Everybody who was actually involved thinks it was fair, or is at least over it.
This has been an interperetive dance, by Ketara. *bows*



