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Post by MING on Sept 29, 2009 19:22:27 GMT -5
Okay, VP is an old system, something that goes back to the days of All Gundam and probably further.
So here's the thing.. there's got to be a better way that just getting an arbitrary number for participating in a battle. Thus, I suggest the following:
Stat Points.
The three basic premises would be Gunnery (how well you shoot), Melee (how well you punch and stab), and Piloting (how well you move). These are just a baseline, there could be more if necessary.
Now, instead of basing the battle outcome by VP amounts, this would be determined upon comparable stats. Someone with low piloting and melee but high gunnery (a sniper), could easily take someone at range, but would be done in by close range combat.
We could restain VP or EXP and instead allow them to convert into stat points. Personally, I've felt that it's unnecessary to use VP in OYW. There's too much mandatory action and little reason to even focus on VP gains. The entire game has a logical endpoint already, anyway. So rewards could be easily done by a dice roll, as well.
Say, after participating in a battle, you have a chance to increase your skill in an area. As your rating gets higher, there is less chance to do so. Diminishing returns if you will.
Anyway, there's a kind of half-assed idea I had. Comment if you want.
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Post by Cid on Sept 29, 2009 22:42:02 GMT -5
I think if we went by this system we'd get too focused on the stats and battles would be far too easy to predict. Like, if you said a sniper with high Gunnery or whatever went up against a Zaku, then it'd be easy to depict who wins. I like how it customizes things a little bit, but that's what a specialization's for.
Also, VP isn't just a random number no one pays attention to. VP, as well as CP, play a significant role when you go into battle, etc. I can't really get into specifics right now.
And a dice roll, wtf?
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sean
Full Member
Posts: 271
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Post by sean on Sept 30, 2009 8:36:10 GMT -5
^Cid. McQuid.
I the idea of VP works because it's easy. If you turn the game to stats, that's fine, but min maxing wins those games normally.
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Frenzy
ZMF Officer 
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Post by Frenzy on Oct 2, 2009 16:17:31 GMT -5
I'm fine with the whole VP idea. Introducing stats would add an unnecessary headache, and as Cid and Sean have pointed out, some people would take advantage of knowledge of this sort of thing that others lack and dominate the game easily.
VP leaves more to chance/superior planning than stats would, and that's a good thing.
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Post by MING on Oct 2, 2009 22:00:58 GMT -5
Well, honestly, can you, under the VP system, think of a way a sniper does not win an amush that he begins?
You are rewarded for being proactive and hitting your enemy before he hits you in this game. That doesn't change under the stats system.
And unlike most games, the problem with min/max characters is not all that bad. Yeah, if you have a guy with a long range suit that puts it all in gunnery, he's going to shoot the shit out of stuff.
But he's going to be raped to hell by a guy with stats split between melee and piloting.
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Isaiah
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Post by Isaiah on Oct 4, 2009 5:54:44 GMT -5
I've seen this before but in a different game. I didn't like it so much.
<3 VP System.
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Nomad
Rogue
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Posts: 42
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Post by Nomad on Oct 4, 2009 12:17:29 GMT -5
I was working on a more complex system that factors in both combat out of a mobile suit and in one, where specific mobile suits were dependent on certain stats. It was similar to what you are suggesting, Ming.
If you are interested in giving me a hand with something, find me on IRC
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Post by on Oct 4, 2009 16:08:39 GMT -5
VP sucks, I want to be a Guntank with max gunnery. THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE. Seriously, some pilots would benefit from learning or specializing things like H2H instead of long range. If they focused they would master it sooner than everyone else. Perhaps make a specialization progress meter which shows when someone would earn a specialization and pick which one they want to work to.
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Frenzy
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Post by Frenzy on Oct 4, 2009 18:06:46 GMT -5
Except that it would leave some people who aren't as skilled at choosing that kind of stuff in the dust.
VP is the better system, if only because you don't need to worry about someone min/maxing you after the first few weeks. Plus, does it really matter? Guntanks would be screwed at close range regardless of what system is used, just as a Gouf will do poorly in a sniper battle.
As for the whole "sniper losing a battle he started" thing, it's easy. He might, say, miss, or the target might move behind cover just as he fires. Or the shot might not do the right amount of damage, or hit a non-vital part of the suit. A ton of things can go wrong, and that's regardless of stats or VP.
And if you want more specialization, well, there are the ones you can earn, and the suit that you choose. For example, it's logical to assume that, say, a Gouf pilot would be better at melee combat, same as a GM Ground Sniper pilot being better at shooting.
I'm still siding with Cid and Sean on this.
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Draco
Rogue
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Post by Draco on Oct 4, 2009 18:11:33 GMT -5
As for the whole "sniper losing a battle he started" thing, it's easy. Or he might get rushed by more Zakus than he can shoot down. |
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Post by MING on Oct 4, 2009 21:08:55 GMT -5
Seriously, this isn't DnD where you can take various negatives to min-max, this is straight up stats and if you focus on a single stat, you get fucked. Plain and simple.
Under the VP system, if a GM Sniper ambushes a Zaku II and higher or equal VP level, the GM Sniper is coming out on top. If a GM Sniper with all it's points in Gunnery attacks a more even statted Zaku II, the same thing happens. BUT!!! If a Zaku II with even stats ambushes the GM Sniper will all Gunnery, the Zaku II will win.
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Frenzy
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Post by Frenzy on Oct 4, 2009 21:31:33 GMT -5
Still, stats would add an element that I'd rather not have to deal with. VP means any number of things I don't need to worry about.
Call it being lazy, but EXP and VP is a system that's worked for a long time, so why bother throwing it out for something new? It may be arbitrary, but at the same time, it's less worrisome than stats.
If I want a game with stats and crap, I'll go play a video game. But VP works fine for PBEM games like this.
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Post by Ketara on Oct 4, 2009 22:01:58 GMT -5
My biggest issue with this idea is how to stat NPC pilots.
Last Odessa had 739 different pilots involved counting everything. That's an awful lot of numbers to digest when writing.
It's also not necessarily the case that it will be a bad idea to min-max stats under such a system. Some mobile suits have no close combat weapons or capabilities, and would benefit more from stat allocations. Fighter and tank pilots would also benefit more, as would infantry. Creating stats for ship captains to use creates clutter.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but it takes a lot of thinking.
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Post by MING on Oct 4, 2009 22:07:54 GMT -5
Assign general levels and how they reflect in a stat system.
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Frenzy
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Post by Frenzy on Oct 4, 2009 22:14:11 GMT -5
I still think it's a dumb idea.
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