Kale
EFF Officer 
Sublieutenant
Posts: 620
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Post by Kale on Dec 22, 2009 13:02:58 GMT -5
‘Ello! This is an extension of/response to Matthew’s thread on the regular Zeon forum. As he mentioned, most of our pre-planning should take place on the officers’ board, since we have shinier brass on our collars.
Next week (and that after, depending on repairs), I think our priorities should be 1) the naval convoys and supply fleets, and 2) removing the wall between North America and the Zeon world.
1) Matthew mentioned this in a previous thread. The Earth Federation’s supply fleets lie directly below our current position. The Pacific and Atlantic naval convoys are to our east and west. Being boxed into North America almost facilitates a push against one or all.
South America would be the most rewarding target. One massive fleet could take care of its 2 x 2000 RP-valued fleets in 3 days. 1 day to move down and engage patrols; 1 day to wipe out Matilda and Woody by dividing our forces; 1 day to skip back into North America.
2) Building a bridge between North America and the remaining Zeon world is crucial, now that the West Arctic will be in Federation hands. West Arctic, the Atlantic, and the Pacific are all tempting targets.
My vote goes to either of the oceans. The West Arctic has no strategic value outside of boxing in North America. On the other hand, the Atlantic or Pacific offer several avenues to other hotspots. Plus, it’d remove Federation control of the oceans, giving them 200 less side RP per week (in addition to that lost for holding the region and possessing the fortress).
Of the oceans, both are comparably defended. The Atlantic is probably more desirable, since it bridges to Europe. Whether we want to capture or destroy the fortress, I do not know.
Moving into the long term…
I think our goals haven’t changed. We still want to take out Belfast as a means of controlling Europe; we need a smaller task force to harass their naval convoys; and keeping open the option of decimating New Delhi and transferring East Asia into Zeon hands is smart.
Moving into the really long term…
Defense becomes a priority, following the capture of Europe and East Asia. With no supply fleets on the Federation side, we’ll have turned this into a war of attrition we can actually win. Europe can become a resource center controlled by the Zeon PCs. We can pump it up with mines and war factories, and milk the land of RP. At the same time, we can reinforce our remaining territories, and organize smaller offenses.
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Post by gaplant on Dec 22, 2009 14:55:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I kind of see this as an opportunity for all of us (sans the three in East Asia) to group up and make some huge pushes.
I know Chris has expressed interest in getting about 5-6 people or so together to hit naval convoys after the Garma event, he should be making a post on that at some point soon. I had the same kind of view on the supply fleets though: with enough people, we could easily get 4000 RP in a matter of a few days.
With as many ships and people as we have, it should be no problem after that to push into the Atlantic Ocean (best option imo), take out another convoy if we haven't already, and arrive safely in Europe after that. This plan has a couple drawbacks, like the Dobdays will have to stay behind in North America, but if we decide at a later point to try to contest West Arctic they could come across then.
Speaking of West Arctic, the whole thing reeks of a trap. With how many people and how much money they've poured into that base, it seems like they pretty much are preparing for us to fight them extensively in an attempt to res-ecure a land path to Zeon lands. I've mentioned this to Chris, that it feels like they are going to try to mire us down and keep us in a place we don't really want to be (kind of like Manila, I guess).
I agree with you in the super long-term. Once we control Europe, we've gained a massive tactical advantage (I believe) when it comes time for Odessa. Pretty much what I would like to do (aside from what you have said, which sounds awesome) after that is bridge the Atlantic if we haven't yet, and keep them out of Zeon territory so they don't try anything cute.
Have we decided to forsake the Africa mines entirely? I wasn't really sure.
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Kale
EFF Officer
Sublieutenant
Posts: 620
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Post by Kale on Dec 22, 2009 16:56:30 GMT -5
Dedicating 5 – 6 people to taking out the naval convoys may be overkill. None are particularly well defended. The biggest obstacle is getting past patrols when entering territories. So I recommend a smaller force, no larger than Excelsior + 1 Gaw + 1 Jukon (or Excelsior + 1 Jukon + 1 Jukon) with one or two PCs manning the ships and full complements of NPC aquatic units.
Hopping between North America and Europe via the Atlantic seems like an excellent idea. We can form one giant fleet, move into the Atlantic, crush whatever patrols move to intercept, and then be at Malta a couple days later. No worry about distracting ourselves with a massive siege against the Azores, when Belfast is priority numero uno.
I also 100% concur with the West Arctic assessment. Like I said previously, it offers us no real strategic advantage. The Federation clearly means to fight us there, and it’s not a battle we want to wage, considering the litany of disadvantages the terrain presents to attackers.
How does this sound, in terms of a rough draft for long term movements?
- Monday, we assess damages from California. We ask any living PC at California to move into North America and transfer RP to an officer.
- Tuesday, we buy 1 x Gaw. We form a fleet that includes any PC ships in North America. PCs hop onto the fleet. The fleet moves into South America and engages patrols w/ 2 x services @ 100 RP.
- Wednesday, we split up our forces and attack Woody and Matilda. 4000 RP is earned in one day.
- Thursday, we return to North America. RP credits are transferred to an officer (if possible).
- Monday, we transfer RP to an officer.
- Tuesday, we cram our PCs into the Gaws and Jukons. We may purchase 1 or 2 x Gaw if we can’t fit everyone and their MS teams. We move into the Atlantic and engage patrols.
- Wednesday, we attack the naval convoy in the Atlantic.
- Thursday, we move into Europe.
- Monday, we transfer RP. Fleet moves to Malta (if it remains in our hands) or Constantinople or Archangelisk.
- Tuesday, the fleet repairs. Samson are purchased to aide. 2 x Dobday and MS are purchased to round out the fleet.
- Wednesday, we move into Europe.
- Thursday, we assault Belfast.
Again, it’s a rough timeline. It basically covers what I think our objectives should be. I’m hoping, with enough analysis and debate, we can trim some fat and maybe consolidate certain actions so we can shorten the time required to pull this off.
I will say that we could move through the West Arctic instead of the Atlantic, on our road to Europe. The pros would be that we’d face fewer patrols and could bring along the Dobday we purchased at California. The cons are that whatever patrols we don’t face will likely be made up for by Federation PC harassment. And we wouldn’t get to attack the Atlantic naval convoy.
Beyond Belfast, I think we’re in agreement. Fortify Europe, form a small fleet to attack the two remaining Federation naval convoys, look to turning the North Atlantic into Zeon territory, and maybe topple New Delhi so we can claim East Asia.
I don't think we should forsake Africa. I just think Europe takes top priority. Once we move into the defense stage, we can clean up Africa and begin establishing mines and PC fortifications.
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Frenzy
ZMF Officer 
Commander
Could be Ramsus.
Posts: 2,152
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Post by Frenzy on Dec 22, 2009 17:06:51 GMT -5
Services can't be bought in hostile territory, so you'd need to bring more NPCs if possible.
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Kale
EFF Officer
Sublieutenant
Posts: 620
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Post by Kale on Dec 22, 2009 17:08:42 GMT -5
They can't be purchased in hostile territory, but I was assuming we could purchase them as we move into South America and the Atlantic to help us against the patrols. Sort of like what we do for paradrops. Is this incorrect?
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Frenzy
ZMF Officer
Commander
Could be Ramsus.
Posts: 2,152
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Post by Frenzy on Dec 22, 2009 17:14:54 GMT -5
I'd forgotten about the paradrop rule, but I'm not entirely sure.
You might need to ask Ketara.
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Post by gaplant on Dec 22, 2009 17:33:31 GMT -5
You would be able to purchase services as you moved into Enemy Territory and they could assist with patrol battles, based upon my understanding.
Also, it appears that Jojo had solved the Malta situation for us - he paradropped Malta last night. The event still hasn't been written, but one would assume that he will be successful because lolEFGF. Possession of the base will return to the EF, who will (presumably) restock it using side RP before Week 8.
Kind of sad, especially since I fixed up the buildings that were damaged, but oh well. They have absolutely no idea that we've scouted Belfast, and they are in no position to plot an attack on even our weakly-defended Africa installations unless they've shifted personnel from West Arctic to Europe. The EF loses a little side RP, and positioning (there is, I believe, no way they will be able to defend the supply fleets in South America, imo).
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Kale
EFF Officer
Sublieutenant
Posts: 620
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Post by Kale on Dec 22, 2009 18:19:56 GMT -5
Malta could become a problem if they build it into a fortress. Otherwise, yeah -- it's only unfortunate because of RP spent to repair its facilities.
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Chris
ZMF Officer
Obersturmbannfuhrer
Ubersuperduperbannfuhrer!
Posts: 849
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Post by Chris on Dec 22, 2009 19:02:22 GMT -5
-I am pretty sure that base will go into Jojo's possesion.
<Post Garma Plans>
-Day 1-2-
- While we are repairing, I have Daren in all his rogueness, and a spiffy Xamel, All Ranging one of the supply fleets. I will be supplying him with RP to purchase a terrorist support as well. No, he won't take out the whole fleet, not likely at least but it will be a nice opening shot, not affiliated with us.
-New SS Member will be traveling to Lhasa, and should arrive around same time Yuji is done upgrading, two are to Spar, getting Finus some VP, and breaking in the Aspalus II.
-We repair!
-Rest of week 1-
-Figure we finish up repairing, licking wounds, and taking tally of what we have remaining as far as assets.
-Form fleetS... I do not feel we need to form one massive fleet to punch into South America, and with enough PCs should not be an issue.
-Schuzstaffel Fleet ( XD Yeah, I'm going there :-p)
-Excelsior
-U-77 Loreley
-U-85 Baekhasten
-TAF Fleet
-Dragon
-Stilva
-Schmerz
-The SS Fleet would be more adequate for stealth missions and assaults, and amazing at taking out the supply fleets I feel. While the Two Gaws with Dobday support or vice versa, would be a big boost to the TAF I think, especially if Sieging any of the bases you guys want.
-Week 2-
-After Yuji and Finus are done sparring, I will ask that Yuji moves to Orbit, and Finus joins the Schuzstaffel fleet.
I am requesting the roster of-
-Xavier Brennan
-Ritter Novosad
-Yuji Takeshi
-Finus Yamamato
-Alain Grace
*Persephone Dawn
Will not take Tian if you feel he's better suited with y'all. I feel between the fact of them being test suits, and the Schutzstaffel's nature, they'd fit, and might not be bad to let the SS be the handlers of the beserkers :-p *Has glorious images of unleashing EXAM Efreet and Aspalus 2 and Zaku Manipulator on bases*
<Long Run Goals>
-I know you all think West Arctic is a trap, but I think its nothing more than a stepping stone and more patrols, and to make things more difficult for us. I feel with proper tactics... I.E. Recon gaw and Jukon IIs, plus Orbital Drop by Aspalus II would be enough to wreak havoc on it.... and thats only a portion of our forces.
-I will gladly take on the naval patrols, and see if I can't draw out the 87th.
-Want to run around taking coastal and island assaults as a tight knit, specialized unit... see if I can't use Z'gok to my advantage... will also be proving ground for whether or not Zaku I Sniper might be a consideration...
Not too much controversy :-p sorry to worry y'all... but hey, <3
****and I'm still not too keen on spreading ourselves too thin with adding bases and what not... I agree with Tian, he thinks the EFGF is spreading themselves thin... if we did same, we'd probably be in worse shape... Unless y'all wanted to do that and let me be like the attack dog? huh huh? XD
DISCUSS!!!! GO!!!
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Post by gaplant on Dec 22, 2009 19:46:38 GMT -5
Have to go to dinner soon, so this post will be mercifully short (lewl!), but here are a few thoughts on Chris' ideas until I can write a bigger response.
- Having Daren attack the supply fleets in good in theory for creativity and ingenuity, as well as building what will (hopefully) be a good working relationship with him, but it kind of hurts us in the long run because the more Medeas he destroys, the less RP we will get when we go clean up.
- I am afraid you might be overestimating the Apsalus II's power early on. I'm not really sure that a Spar will sufficiently break him in, and even if it does cloud never roleplays and the Feds have been using more and more sniper units lately. I extremely doubt that they will make the mistake of insufficiently reinforcing their sniper units with a solid ground battalion in the future. In short, I'm really not looking for Apsalus II to do much of anything for a while, unless we can find a good battle for him to operate in.
- Continuing on from the last point, I'm pretty sure we are going to be in for a tougher fight at New Amsterdam than you give them credit for. They've got personnel there already, and as I illustrated in the other post they have more money.
OMFG I HAVE TO GO BBL
NOTHING PERSONAL CHRIS I LOVE YOU
I LIKE SOME THINGS
I'LL TALK ABOUT IT WHEN I GET BACK
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Chris
ZMF Officer
Obersturmbannfuhrer
Ubersuperduperbannfuhrer!
Posts: 849
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Post by Chris on Dec 22, 2009 19:52:30 GMT -5
Like I tried to say earlier, Aleksei in that thing was almost a one man wrecking crew... they can't set snipers up to defend against an orbital drop. And you're underestimating the effectiveness of having that massive ANTI-FORTRESS MPC....
And as far as losing the RP to Daren, I can live with that, especially with the loses we keep taking by trying to be as efficient as possible. We can't try to get anything and everything. I am willing to settle with the Feds losing the RP, even if we don't gain it.
He can start the attacks, take a medea or two out, and then leave the area, you all can take window of opportunity to clean up. We focus all our assets on Supply fleets, and head down there with all of us, and try to farm the money, we're leaving ourselves exposed elsewhere. This way we can start to chip away at them, and clean up with minimal involvement from our people.
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Kale
EFF Officer
Sublieutenant
Posts: 620
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Post by Kale on Dec 22, 2009 20:03:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure having Daren shoot at the Federation supply fleet is in our interest. At best, we can hope he misses. At worst, he succeeds, gets 500 RP we'd rather have in our coffers, and we'll have spent 100 of our own RP to back him in doing that.
I like the idea of our new SS member and Yuji sparring. Getting Apsalus II into fighting condition will definitely help.
Hmm...
I see no reason to divide into two fleets during our entrance to South America. That's just two rolls we'll have to perform against patrols, instead of one. Meaning all the more chance we'll snare patrols we might otherwise have not as a single task force. And since both fleets would be weaker alone than together, it's just one more reason not to divide.
Once we're in South America, obviously, we'll need to split up to target Woody and Matilda. The divide there should be based on aerial superiority, with an equal number of Gaws and Jukons between the new fleets.
Regarding the SS fleet...
I like the idea of forming an SS-based squadron to go after the naval convoys. I also think two Jukons and the Excelsior are a fine makeup.
I disagree with the timing. The Excelsior and two Jukons would be a tremendous boon when it comes to taking Belfast. Half of our strategy for its assault is to have a strong sea presence. So breaking those ships off the main fleet at this juncture seems unwise.
I also can't see a reason to involve Persephone Dawn, Alain Grace, or Finus Yamamato in the SS fleet. It seems to be doing primarily sea-based operations, meaning all three of their personal MS (not to mention MS teams) will require Dodais. Jukon IIs cannot hold enough Dodais to allow them to launch. Excelsior cannot store MS.
Moving Yuji to orbit is a fine tactic, provided there aren't EF fleets there to block his reentry. Remember, in 08th MS team, Apsalus II had a trio of Musai helping it get through a Salamis brigade, in the Jaburo attack simulation.
Moving onto the bigger issue...
What is the tactical motivation for going after New Amsterdam and the West Arctic? I can see plenty of cons for the attack, and no benefits that are better than the alternative of going after the Atlantic:
- Jojo will fight to the death there. He's probably our biggest threat, since he's got the 3 x services specialization. His 4 x GM Snipers nearly murdered Dragon already.
- The Federation spent all of their RP last week on New Amsterdam and the West Arctic. They clearly want a fight.
- Defending NPC forces at New Amsterdam automatically get arctic refits when purchased. Our attackings forces do not.
- Fighting in the arctic climate is just plain awful for our Gaws and our Jukons. Gaws get hurt by snowstorms, Jukons get hurt by icey waters.
- There just doesn't appear to be any strategic significance to the West Arctic beyond serving as a boxtop for North America. If we punch through the Atlantic, we've got a bridge between North America and Europe that goes between our three major territories (North America, Eurasia, Africa). If we take the West Arctic, we can go to Antarctica and the Pacific Ocean and the East Arctic...
Regarding the thinning of forces...
Yeah, it definitely does look like the Federation is spreading themselves too thin. Which is precisely why I favor the massive fleet option for two or three more weeks. We end up gaining only Belfast when it comes to property, but at the same time we still decimate their side RP.
Breaking off into two fleets, one dedicated to "attacking coastal bases and naval convoys" at the cost of nearly half our terrestrial PCs and three very valuable ships, just seems like it divides us where we don't need to be divided. And for reasons and motivations on your part I do not think you've adequately explained just yet.
So please do!
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Kale
EFF Officer
Sublieutenant
Posts: 620
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Post by Kale on Dec 22, 2009 20:31:45 GMT -5
And as far as losing the RP to Daren, I can live with that, especially with the loses we keep taking by trying to be as efficient as possible. We can't try to get anything and everything. I am willing to settle with the Feds losing the RP, even if we don't gain it. Where are we leaving ourselves exposed elsewhere, exactly? Malta was our only real vulnerability, and that is gone. The Federation isn't going to hit one of our fortresses next week. Not in the time it takes us to move down to South America with an NPC-contingent. We're in and out in three days, while most of our PCs are repairing, with 4000 RP for our troubles. I see no reason to "live with" losing RP to Daren, if there's no necessity for, or advantage to, having it happen in the first place. Again, the division continues to seem unwise. That doesn't mean I think it's horrible. I'm all for chipping away at them in the long term, but I think your suggestions would be better applied to the defense stage, rather than the offense. BTW, has anyone heard from Zero? |
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Zero
New Member
Posts: 10
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Post by Zero on Dec 22, 2009 22:32:57 GMT -5
I've been busy with Holidays. My brothers birthday is today, so, party and what not.
Why? Did I miss something somewhere?
I've been reading the topics, but I don't really have anything to contribute or the time to contribute half the time. I think the ideas are great, and don't really have any of my own at the moment.
Like I said.
Busy, haha.
Edit: Before I get back to PARRRTYYYY, I'm sorry I've been busy lately and not talking much, and that I kinda stopped dead in the middle of that RP with Naomi, but her computer died mid-way through it and only just recently got it working again (before that she would hop on someone elses to send emails). She said she'd reply to my post soon, so I'm waiting on that RP wise.
Yah.
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Kale
EFF Officer
Sublieutenant
Posts: 620
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Post by Kale on Dec 22, 2009 23:19:59 GMT -5
Sorry! Didn't mean to imply you needed to post, or take time away from your party. Just hadn't seen you chime in for a day or two, and usually you're Johnny on the spot when it comes to planning. Plus you catch a lot of crap I let fall through the cracks.
Enjoy your holidays! I know I definitely won't be posting much, depending on the day.
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